• lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
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    11 hours ago

    Your claims lack links to supporting references. At least I provide them & link to multiple distinct passages that all seem to converge to the same conclusion. As for the translation, we’re not about to learn ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, & Greek to refer to the earliest texts. This is where linking to a more faithful translation would come in if you can do that.

    refer to the pagan concept of an afterlife

    Not pagan: the Torah refers to Sheol as either (1) a metaphor for grave or (2) a bleak netherworld where all the dead reside (comparable to Hades). The Tanakh (Daniel 12:2) mentions a general resurrection & afterlife. This made its way into the Old Testament.

    The Pharisaic school, which became Rabbinic Judaism, claimed to keep an explanatory Oral Torah for the written Torah, which they eventually codified as the Talmud. This started with the 2nd Temple period before & concurrent with early Christianity, thus influencing its scriptures. The Talmud refers to an afterlife in terms of Sheol, Olam Ha-Ba, Gehinnom:

    • Olam Ha-Ba: a place of reward for the righteous
    • Gehinnom: a cursed valley identified in the Torah that also refers to a place of 12-month punishment/purification for the impure before they may proceed to Olam Ha-Ba. (The utterly wicked may not proceed.)

    Cultures evolve & acquire ideas from exposure to other cultures. Their traditions & mythological texts are no exception. Judaism & early Christianity likely adopted ideas of duality of good & evil, free will, resurrection, an afterlife, divine justice from contacting cultures.[1]

    in line with Pharisaic Judaism

    The word in question there is “gehenna” which carries a very specific meaning that does not, in any way, infer an afterlife.

    They claimed the contrary: see earlier mention of Gehinnom (the Hebrew name for Gehenna).

    the unrighteous are destroyed

    In all translations, the famous passage in Matthew about sorting the sheep & goats to different sides specifically mentions eternal punishment for those who don’t get eternal life. Moreover, resurrection is a life after death, ie, an afterlife. None of this is consistent with lack of punishment.

    As I wrote before, the Bible is inconsistent, so even the Bible you claim is mistranslated indicates you’re right about the absence of an afterlife & the absence of hell. They both do & don’t exist!

    We’re both right. We’re both wrong. Welcome to inconsistency: you can read absolutely anything into the Bible.


    1. Mediterranean & Near East cultures in regular contact were likely exposed to ideas from

      • Ancient Egypt: the idea of an afterlife with divine judgement traces as far back as 1500 BCE.
      • Persia: the oldest passages of the Zoroastrian Avesta (the Gathas is thought to have existed before 1000 BCE) introduce a cosmic duality between asha (roughly good) & druj (roughly evil), free will, & personal accountability resulting in a duality of rewards in the afterlife: the house of Song or best of existences rewards asha whereas the house of Lie (described as a place of prolonged darkness, foul food, woe) rewards druj.

      The Tanakh refers to ancient Egypt & evidently admires Cyrus the Great (of Persia) by designating him a messiah for the return of Jews to Zion and building of the 2nd Temple. Christianity features the Biblical Magi (the term for Zoroastrian or Persian priests). ↩︎

    • Machinist@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      Now this is a properly nuanced take.

      Former evangelical fundamentalist raised in this stuff. Just curious, don’t answer if you don’t want to, what’s your background?

      Also, if you have the time and energy:

      What are your thoughts on modern day efforts to breed red heifers/resume sacrifices?

      Connections between the US evangelical right and fundamentalist judaism?

      Mike Johnson scares the fuck out of me, how dangerous do you think he is?