How the hell can we ignore the mindless murdering of innocent families. This is not war it is the genocide that has been planned for a long time
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And continuous violence/genocide in Tigray region of Ethiopia. No one mass-protests those in NY, London or Berlin…
Ethiopia isn’t a major “Ally” like Israel is.
And Uyghur genocide.
I don’t think it’s difficult to understand that people feel moved by atrocities that are closer to them. The UK directly helped create present day Israel and the colonisation of Palestinian land. Our current government also supports Israel in their attack on Gaza, meaning our taxes are being used to fund weapons and aid the genocide that’s happening right now. Of course people are protesting here.
Does it mean people don’t care about Tigray? Or course not, but we have less direct influence over what’s happening there.
This is not war it is the genocide that has been planned for a long time
What’s your opinion on why Israel is so bad at actually achieving genocide?
You mean Hamas attack on Israeli citizens right? Just to clarify
You mean you ignore the atrocities, apartheid and land theft that built up to this? The palestinians just naturally and gave up their homes and rights for a few generations?
You really shouldn’t argue this, since it always goes both ways in every single scenario.
I have no religious affiliation or interest. What increasingly caused concern was the map of Israel 50 years ago vs the size today. Also, the incessant extremist approach of settlers bulldozing palestinian homes with support of superior force with no recourse for the dispossessed. I have never been in that position, but if my neighbour turned up with guns, knocked down my house and took my land, there would be an expectation of consequence
If you’re referring to the massacres being a consequence (and not justifying, I hope), know that Gaza and Hamas separate themselves from the West Bank, which is where the settlements are occurring.
There aren’t settlements in Gaza.
Israel literally offered Palestine 99% of the west bank, all of Gaza, and half of Jerusalem, and Palestinian leadership turned it down because the deal included Israel existing.
Did they?
So what’s beautiful about this is that even if I were to agree with you about whether or not Israel is an apartheid state, and if there is theft of land or not - and make no mistake those things are serious and evil when true - then they are still very far from genocide, I believe the intent of that comment by “mindless murdering”, which is the clear open objective and stance of Hamas.
You can’t commit apartheid outside of your country. That’s not what “apartheid” means. Arabs in Israel have full citizenship and proportionate representation in government.
Israel is deliberately mass.murdering civilians and flattening cities. They did the same thing during their war in Lebanon in 2006 - levelling urban areas like Dahiyeh to cause disproportionate damage as a deterrent. I’ve read that they’ve dropped the equivalents of 33 tons of explosives for every square kilometre of Gaza. To inflict this on one of the densest urban areas on earth on a civilian population is pure evil.
Hamas doesn’t stop murdering innocent civilians, deliberately targets civilians and avoids military targets, and then hides behind civilians.
Israel needs to eradicate Hamas, but can’t do so as Hamas hides behind civilians. Options are to allow Hamas to butcher the innocent, or go after Hamas with civilian casualties.
I don’t like it, but the extermination of Hamas is necessary. The Gaza civilians are in a terrible position if they withdraw their support of Hamas, Hamas will just execute them. It’s shitty, and terrible, but this is all on Hamas and only highlights the need for their removal.
Israel needs to eradicate Hamas, Hamas needs to eradicate Israel. They can’t both be right, thus, it can only be that both are wrong.
This is “war on terror” levels of idiocy.
Was it evil also to bomb and flatten Berlin and the rest of Germany at the end of WW2?
If you are British or American, how do you feel about that?
Back then it wasn’t known that it’s not an effective strategy, Germany’s reaction to those bombings pretty much set the precedent for it becoming a war crime.
And from a German perspective: We started it. And did way worse, e.g. bombing Polish cities with the explicit goal to cause maximal casualties in predominantly Jewish quarters. The allies, meanwhile, did not try to maximise casualties or anything like that but tried to make as many people as possible homeless, in an attempt to lower economic output, gum up the system, etc. Generally speaking, it didn’t work. Have a Kraut video for a lot more context.
And no such thing could possibly be the goal in Gaza as Gaza already doesn’t have an economy. Other possible justifications, such as “have lower overall casualties” (see e.g. bombing Dresden vs. slogging through it like slogging through Budapest) don’t apply because Hamas is not going to surrender and are way more erm entunnelled. To get them out of there you have to get in there. Or maybe pour concrete in all exits you can find? That’d have my blessings.
Furthermore: As a German Zionist I’d rather Israel didn’t slide into complete inhumanity, and further into fascism, thank you. (Ben-Gvir is minister so they’re already half-way there, also, there doesn’t seem to be much opposition against collective punishment). It’s not exactly a thing you wish on a country: It’s pretty much the worst calamity that can befall a country.
What would be your preferred and effective strategy against someone who wants you dead and comes into your home and kills your children? Expect and accept apology?
The priority is creating conditions such that Palestinian teenagers don’t constantly see Israel abusing their families, unjustly imprisoning them, stealing their land and murdering them by the thousands, or else you’ll have Palestinians asking themselves: “What would be your preferred and effective strategy against someone who wants you dead and comes into your home and kills your children? Expect and accept apology?” and joining Hamas.
comes into your home and kills your children
Are you talking about the Deir Yassin massacre?
Eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, at some point people have to make up and let the past be the past. Currently Israel is going way beyond eye for an eye.
As to the current situation: How about at least having the fucking decency to build a couple of tent cities outside Gaza and let children, the elderly, and vetted people out of that killbox. If that’s too much, how about not bombing areas you previously told people to flee to. This is like the bare minimum to be able to claim you care a fucking iota about humanity.
You are only looking at the consequence of oppressing people until they are out of hope and the only path that remains to them seems to be one of violence.
More violence and more oppression will only cement this and pave the road for the next generation of hopeless militants.
The solution would be to break this cycle but that would require concessions from the hardline Zionists.
You too would feel hate and resentment for those who took your father’s land, bombed regularly, put you under a harsh embargo, no jobs prospects, no hope, and, no future.
Great to see the world has some people of conscience.
love to see it
Genuine ask - no BS or anything here. Has anyone else seen like the same three posters on this sublem bombard it with some of the most hilariously pro-Hamas biased content I’ve ever seen? Like, effectively personal blogs being passed around here as literal legitimate news being reported. It’s WILD to see in real time.
What about a cease-fire’s particularly pro-hamas? Cease-fire means both directions.
A ceasefire where Hamas gets to keep their hostages is a huge Hamas victory. Advocating for something which gives Hamas a huge victory will be interpreted by some as support for Hamas.
These demonstrations are full of Palestinian flags, without an Israeli one in sight. It’s hard to argue against them being partisan
If the goal is not to harm your own hostages, you wouldn’t be using bombs, which is real using very heavily right now. It makes a literally no sense.
I don’t understand how your comment relates to mine. Do you believe that because I consider a cessation of hostilities where Hamas keeps their hostages a victory for Hamas, that I mean to say that rescuing hostages is the scope of Israel’s campaign?
It clearly isn’t. Israel intends to destroy Hamas and are appallingly callous about the collateral damage they cause in the process
Please re-read my comment lmao. :p
The Hamas active members can have time to hide and reset for another attack if there is a cease fire. They’ll refortify the hospitals and schools they use to hide, as well as gather civilans for shields. They can set up booby traps for a ground invasion into Gaza.
I’m sure they’ve already done all that considering they were the ones that initiated this conflict. They had to have known a ground invasion was likely after attacking Israel.
They’ve been mostly locked in place since 8th October. There’s no way for them to regroup and refortify with Israel dropping bombs on anything which looks like a terrorist. A ceasefire would let them regroup in civilian buildings, which I think we all want to avoid. They have to qualms with using children as human shields, so we need to keep the terrorists pinned down and get away from those children.
Well then, best just carpet bomb all of gaza then right?
How bad do you think Israel is at carpet bombing? Honestly, multiple weeks of carpet bombing, by any modern estimate, should dismantle all of Gaza. That very demonstrably has not happened.
So are they really, really bad at it or are they not attempting it?
Have you not seen the satellite images?
Yes, of course I have. I am aware of what wars do.
Then you would see the absurdity of your statement.
What you want to do is drive hamas out and destroy and fill all the tunnels they made. Then when you start letting people.back in you try and filter out any hamas or pro hamas people. It be kinda like of the usa had a working southern border… or like how the usa and Canada birder works
Oh, I’m sure the goddamn million Palestinians who have just been kicked out of their homes and seen it flattened to the ground will not have any particular ill will against Israel. All of them will be perfectly subservient saints who will offer the other cheek when Israel keeps pouring out settlements in their backyards.
As opposed to the Palestinians who just attacked them ?
What do you think the down side is for the Israelis? They can flatten Gaza and destroy hamas arsenals and under ground network and kill a bunch of them setting back any attacks by years or decades.
Or in your mind they can just not do anything and keep getting attacked. Then each time they do nothing , hamas will get bolder and create larger attacks and take more hostages.
Terrorists come kill your family. You call the police, and someone replies “there’s been enough violence.” Meanwhile the terrorists continue to advocate for killing your extended family as well as numerous other families, and you know these threats are credible because they continue trying
How sensible is that, to you?
So this is definitely justifying:
- expelling 1.5Mln from their homes
- carpet bombing residential neighbourhoods
- restricting the access to clean drinking water, electricity, food and fuel for the general population
- preventing people fleeing the war zone
- Blocking humanitarian aid to enter
- bombing areas that they told the civilian population is safe
- preventing humanitarian aid to enter the enclave
- Cutting the access to the internet and telephone, so people are not even able to call an ambulance or check how their loved ones are fairing.
- While actively refusing to admit that with their actions they have caused a humanitarian catastrophe, despite what UN, Red Crescent and I don’t know how many more international agencies are saying.
- Refusing to even call for a humanitarian pause to let some needed aid enter the enclave
while killing 10 times more civilians, babies, kids and women and causing immensely more suffering for the innocents.
You can’t be a genius to see that one evil doesn’t give you the right or the moral high ground to commit even greater evil.
preventing humanitarian aid to enter the enclave
Demonstrably not happening, as there are aid convoys in south gaza right now.
preventing humanitarian aid to enter the enclave
I think this is really shitty of Egypt, Jordan, etc to do, yes. Israel and the US tried to get them to take refugees. Took forever to even get them to send aid.
The rest is pretty typical of urban combat, so no, not genocide. If you want civilians to not die in an urban warzone, you ask them to leave the warzone. Urban fighting is ludicrously dangerous.
Are you kidding. How many trucks have been allowed. Do you think they are enough?!? We are talking about 2.5 Mln people.
You are writing all this from the comfort of your own house, people there don’t have a roof over their heads. You can’t even fathom what conditions they are living in. Are they all deserve to suffer?
How many more civilians need to die to condemn Israel? 10K, 20K, 50K, 1M?
How many trucks have been allowed.
It’s weird you think Israel is the cause here
Are they all deserve to suffer?
I would prefer none of this happen, but Hamas does not value human life. It’s truly tragic.
I find it very strange that your inference is that I don’t care.
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I would also leave this here:
Karim Khan said that impeding aid deliveries for Gaza could constitute a war crime and that there must be an effort by Israel to ensure vital supplies are allowed in.
Prior to this, some 500 trucks carrying aid and other goods had entered the territory every day.
So to put things into perspective, for 3 straight weeks only 117 trucks carrying humanitarian aid entered the enclave.
A division of the Israeli military responsible to overseeing civilian affairs in Gaza (COGAT) said this morning that it would allow increased supplies through the Rafah crossing in the coming days.
Not to mention that the same officials are constantly trying to downplay how grave the situation there is. And today’s looting of humanitarian supplies only comes to prove that people there are really desperate!
Yeah, they let the aid trucks in, the bombed the aid after it had been delivered.
That is a gross misrepresentation.
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This is disgusting and even though I don’t know you, I know you’re better than this kind of comment.
Innocent people died.
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This comment is wholly uncalled for regardless of any mitigating circumstances
I’m sorry if you are offended by facts. You can always take comfort in the fake narratives created by US and European MSM.
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The IDF killed its own citizens on October 7th. This is a statement of fact backed by survivors. So whoever deleted my comment stop censoring the truth please
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
It’s less the factual nature and more the presentation and what is implied.
What do you mean presentation?
Trying to diminish multiple massacres with a story about friendly fire, as if those things are at all the same.
You’re a bad person and I’m glad I’ll never see you again
On lemmy they’re called communities.
Also calling for a ceasefire is not a “pro-Hamas” position. It feels like you’re showing bias here more than anyone else. The Independent is also a large and well respected news outfit, and while many such publications have a lot of opinion pieces that are basically blog posts, this isn’t one of them and is in traditional news format - they’re reporting on a planned protest likely to be attended by a considerable number.
I love how you read what I said - which wasn’t in relation to this direct article - and then strawmanned me so much I’m fucking choking on straw irl from it. Dude, take a break :p
Lol sorry if I was a little harsh. But you didn’t link to any of the blog posts that you referred to, and the post you commented on isn’t a blog.
lol no worries I get it, thanks for apologizing <3
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Lmao you’re reminding me of this random friend I made on Clash of Clans because of my username, he was a meth head and thought he’d found a kindred spirit. My name originates from a software package from Windows 95, Tweak Tools 95, and a pick to make a 90s hacker name.
So every defender of human rights is pro-Hamas according to your twisted logic.
Last night the families released a statement calling the intense bombing on Friday “the worst of all nights”, due to the uncertainty of the safety of their loved ones during IDF strikes.
And guess what, people on the other side of the fence are saying it, now imagine going through this personally with all your family. Not able to reach your loved ones, without food, Internet, or electricity. I am sure if you go through this hell you would change your tune
Generally you use the most firepower directly before committing ground troops, so yes I would expect last night to be the worst night.
Welcome to Lemmy
Promoting Piers Morgan in any shape or form is a bad thing.
How does host being someone changes validity of what guest is saying and who the guest is?
A good host is impartial, and draws out answers from their guest by asking hard questions. A good host will probably piss off everyone over time, because they’ll ask questions that contradict both the interviewee and the viewers’ biases. Piers Morgan is not a good host, he’s a fucking vile wretch that contaminates anything he’s involved with. The world will be a better place after his death.
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London is the fair town for terrorists worldwide.
dunno what they’re expecting Britain to do.
how is a protest march in a city, on an island, in a different continent going to do anything in Gaza?
Are you asking how protest works in general? The place doesn’t matter much. Do you want them to protest in gaza? They can’t go there
