Sure, but we’re talking plurals of strangers atm. “Please don’t call me a guy going forward” is a different conversation than “what you just said is stupid, mean, and wrong”.
Drag… Supposes, that’s how it would look without applying much empathy. But if someone gets called something and says it’s bad, it must be clear they don’t like it. If they’re angry, that’s a kind of upset. It means they could be hurting. Drag would understand no matter how someone phrased it.
Drag is very forgiving when a trans person is upset they’ve been misgendered. Growing up as the wrong gender is traumatic. It can literally give you cPTSD and personality disorders. Being triggered because you feel like you’re back in that situation is a completely understandable response. Drag uses gender neutral “guys”, but acknowledges that it’s a dangerous practice, and if you hurt someone then you need to own it. They don’t owe anyone politeness in that moment. If drag didn’t like that responsibility, drag wouldn’t take risks with other people’s mental health.
Out of curiosity, have your therapist told you ever about the dangers of using third person pronoun when expressing yourself? Like it strengthens the disassociation between you and your body and mind, etc. etc? If not, please change them.
This is coming from a genuine place, I’m not trying to be sarcastic or mean.
Fortunately, drag doesn’t use third person pronouns for dragself. You assumed they were third person because you’re only used to seeing that conjugation with third person. But conjugation doesn’t have a relationship to grammatical person in English. One form of conjugation can apply in multiple persons.
Understanding is a meeting in the middle. It’s reasonable to correct the record on how you as an individual would like to be gendered. It’s not reasonable to expect all of society to drop the use of a word that is colloquially accepted as gender neutral. At a certain point, your outrage is the antisocial behavior.
I think the amount of people who either (1) do not know the term to be gender neutral or (2) purposefully use it as a gendered term to anger people is less than 1%, honestly.
I live in a pretty conservative area, and I’m not exactly a leftist either, and I’ve never seen guys used in any way other than just as a generic for “you all”
it’s also just not important enough to die on a hill for
Cool, so we agree it’s silly to get so strung up over it, huh? Of course people tailor their language, it happens constantly. If someone is going to go out of their way to construe a perfectly normal part of speech as me being malignant and demand that I change my behavior for their benefit I’m going to tell them to fuck off, personally. If someone is respectful and asks tactfully…sure, I’ll adjust for them. Though internally I’ll be judging them for being a snowflake.
I think it’s more that if you get annoyed at something like that, I would think you’re way too much of a hassle to be friends with long term. It’s just a matter of compatibility and the choice to filter out incompatible people in your social circle. It’s nothing personal.
Of course I would stop at their request, however if I were that person with PTSD, I wouldn’t expect the world to cater to my disabilities and strategise on how I could function in society by managing it. That’s what I currently do with my own PTSD and it makes me a stronger person for it.
Also, that’s hardly comparable to using the phrase “you guys” in a conversation. That phrase has always been gender neutral and far nicer sounding than “you people” or “you all”.
Edit: and also, yes I would have no idea on why the other party would take offence to the phrase “you guys” but I would also be under no obligation to establish a friendship with them beyond that conversation. I don’t expect someone I’ve just met to trauma dump on me and I don’t want them to.
Of course, I would correct myself in that conversation and not use the phrase “you guys” after they’ve told me not to use it, because it’s polite to do so, but that won’t stop me feeling that I can’t be myself around them.
Why does the other persons energy matter? If someone requests not to be called something and you continue to call them that then you are kinda being a jerk. It’s not the same as correcting someone’s grammar.
Cause it’s rude. Like correcting grammar in a conversation. Both would be equally rude.
Nobody wants to be told that what they’ve learned and have been taught to them their whole life is now an offense. Just like nobody wants to be misgendered on purpose.
The fact that you’re getting downvoted for essentially saying “just be a respectful, reasonable, and decent human being” is pretty bizarre. Like, can we just have some empathy and patience for each other?
It’s just as much not a problem for them to be offended by it as it is for you to choose your words better. Knowing that you made a choice to offend so yeah, you’re the jerk. You’re honestly making a lot more of it if you went all this distance to think you’re the one hard done by just cuz you refuse to memorize some words. That’s snowflake thinking.
Only bad actors looking for the drama go for the path of most resistance.
It’s not a problem until someone tells you to not refer to them as a dude or a guy. If you continue, you are just an asshole 🤷🏻
Sure, but we’re talking plurals of strangers atm. “Please don’t call me a guy going forward” is a different conversation than “what you just said is stupid, mean, and wrong”.
It’s the same picture?
No it really isn’t. One clearly and directly communicates a need. The other response shies away from that and insults without explaining why.
Drag… Supposes, that’s how it would look without applying much empathy. But if someone gets called something and says it’s bad, it must be clear they don’t like it. If they’re angry, that’s a kind of upset. It means they could be hurting. Drag would understand no matter how someone phrased it.
If the other party is 3, then yes. From adults I expect ability to differentiate between stating a need and throwing a tantrum.
Drag is very forgiving when a trans person is upset they’ve been misgendered. Growing up as the wrong gender is traumatic. It can literally give you cPTSD and personality disorders. Being triggered because you feel like you’re back in that situation is a completely understandable response. Drag uses gender neutral “guys”, but acknowledges that it’s a dangerous practice, and if you hurt someone then you need to own it. They don’t owe anyone politeness in that moment. If drag didn’t like that responsibility, drag wouldn’t take risks with other people’s mental health.
Out of curiosity, have your therapist told you ever about the dangers of using third person pronoun when expressing yourself? Like it strengthens the disassociation between you and your body and mind, etc. etc? If not, please change them.
This is coming from a genuine place, I’m not trying to be sarcastic or mean.
Fortunately, drag doesn’t use third person pronouns for dragself. You assumed they were third person because you’re only used to seeing that conjugation with third person. But conjugation doesn’t have a relationship to grammatical person in English. One form of conjugation can apply in multiple persons.
I mean I’ll be nice about it and correct to girls or ladies or whatever, but that conversation is probably over
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I just told you I would respect it. But I don’t view “you guys” as something divisive. So yeah I don’t want to be around those people
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Nah I’m doing pretty ok.
Also fuck maga
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I’m not pretending? And I’m also not hard-line
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Understanding is a meeting in the middle. It’s reasonable to correct the record on how you as an individual would like to be gendered. It’s not reasonable to expect all of society to drop the use of a word that is colloquially accepted as gender neutral. At a certain point, your outrage is the antisocial behavior.
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I think the amount of people who either (1) do not know the term to be gender neutral or (2) purposefully use it as a gendered term to anger people is less than 1%, honestly.
I live in a pretty conservative area, and I’m not exactly a leftist either, and I’ve never seen guys used in any way other than just as a generic for “you all”
Cool, so we agree it’s silly to get so strung up over it, huh? Of course people tailor their language, it happens constantly. If someone is going to go out of their way to construe a perfectly normal part of speech as me being malignant and demand that I change my behavior for their benefit I’m going to tell them to fuck off, personally. If someone is respectful and asks tactfully…sure, I’ll adjust for them. Though internally I’ll be judging them for being a snowflake.
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How does a snowflake screw in a lightbulb? They hold the bulb, and the whole world revolves around them.
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I think it’s more that if you get annoyed at something like that, I would think you’re way too much of a hassle to be friends with long term. It’s just a matter of compatibility and the choice to filter out incompatible people in your social circle. It’s nothing personal.
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Of course I would stop at their request, however if I were that person with PTSD, I wouldn’t expect the world to cater to my disabilities and strategise on how I could function in society by managing it. That’s what I currently do with my own PTSD and it makes me a stronger person for it.
Also, that’s hardly comparable to using the phrase “you guys” in a conversation. That phrase has always been gender neutral and far nicer sounding than “you people” or “you all”.
Edit: and also, yes I would have no idea on why the other party would take offence to the phrase “you guys” but I would also be under no obligation to establish a friendship with them beyond that conversation. I don’t expect someone I’ve just met to trauma dump on me and I don’t want them to.
Of course, I would correct myself in that conversation and not use the phrase “you guys” after they’ve told me not to use it, because it’s polite to do so, but that won’t stop me feeling that I can’t be myself around them.
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Or, just maybe. The person remarking is an asshole. It gives off the same energy as correcting grammar when talking with someone.
Why does the other persons energy matter? If someone requests not to be called something and you continue to call them that then you are kinda being a jerk. It’s not the same as correcting someone’s grammar.
Cause it’s rude. Like correcting grammar in a conversation. Both would be equally rude.
Nobody wants to be told that what they’ve learned and have been taught to them their whole life is now an offense. Just like nobody wants to be misgendered on purpose.
“Learning new things is offensive”
Big yikes
Being told you’re an idiot and everything you’ve learned is wrong in front of others is “yikes”
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“The earth is flat”. “Ok, cool. Didn’t mean anything by it.”
A bit hyperbolic, but that is how i imagine it sounds to older people. Perspective goes both ways.
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The fact that you’re getting downvoted for essentially saying “just be a respectful, reasonable, and decent human being” is pretty bizarre. Like, can we just have some empathy and patience for each other?
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It’s just as much not a problem for them to be offended by it as it is for you to choose your words better. Knowing that you made a choice to offend so yeah, you’re the jerk. You’re honestly making a lot more of it if you went all this distance to think you’re the one hard done by just cuz you refuse to memorize some words. That’s snowflake thinking.
Only bad actors looking for the drama go for the path of most resistance.
Changing the language you intuitively use is hard
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There are harder things in life that are actually worth complaining about. Growing your brain isn’t one of them.
L + ratio + 5 days too late for me to care