I mean, isn’t it a good thing that the company that touts privacy publicly apologizes and reverses course when they screw up, even if they sometimes don’t to the degree we would like?

I don’t see why Google should ever be forgiven
for violating our privacy just because they’re blatant about doing it. That’s dumb.

Everyone’s always gonna have their own team. Apple doomers have existed since the late 80’s and are just as insufferable imo.

Evangelicals in either camp are inevitable, and not worth vilifying/deifying the entire platform over. It shouldn’t even matter, we should be demanding more out of all of them.

I realize that I’m just venting now, apologies lol.

The three of us are in agreement.

Yeah the Siri thing has no excuse. What I can say about that though is it got a public apology, and since has become an opt-in setting that users are presented with on the setup of any new device. I think the bad press caught up with them on that one and they were fairly quick to own up and correct it.

Absolutely legitimate criticism, but I don’t see Google backtracking on any privacy-hostile actions and yet people still use Chrome and Android. Apple’s made mistakes and sometimes is a little stubborn about it, but they are relatively quick to admit fault and course correct. Can’t ask for much more from a large corporation these days.

It’s my understanding that GrapheneOS and LineageOS are going to eventually impacted by the new signing requirements, which I think is what you just hinted at too. What a shame, I love grapheneOS for my work phone and would love to keep using it. Unfortunately if this will affect them I don’t know if the masses will have a better choice than iOS. Again, a full featured Linux phone is the dream but I don’t see one taking up much market share in the near future.

In the meantime I don’t see why Apple gets all the hate wrt privacy when they at least are capable of apologizing and reversing their decisions when called out. Many people I’ve met IRL that hate Apple for these reasons seem to use Google services or zuck-owned social media and not understand the irony. Sometimes it just feels like generic bandwagon hate to me, which is all I’m arguing against here tbh.

Looking beyond just podcasts, the terms and conditions of the App Store itself are what covers collection of this data. I agree with you an argument could be made that the user is being misinformed or misled, and am not going to defend Apple doing that. But there’s a conflation being made I think behind device data collection settings vs App Store terms and conditions telemetry data, and what data is being collected based on each.

In other words, shady practices for sure but this might be (at least partially) a case of sensationalism over a misunderstanding of what kind of data the device settings and App Store terms and conditions cover, and which terms we’re talking about.

I’m not going to argue this point, but am more interested in discussing issues they currently have than issues we think they’ll have eventually. If we’re gonna vilify a company let’s make sure we’re doing it based on stuff that’s actually happened so we know they deserve it.

To be fair, a lot of those features have been getting added back, a lot of walled-garden regressions removed as well. I guess this part is more subjective and based on your workflow. The feature churn itself is the only true constant.

Yeah I would expect the same of any company. They have to comply with the laws of the country they do business in. This same requirement compelled them to finally add USB-C to iPhones and allow alternate app stores.

I wouldn’t blame Google for doing the same, so I’m not going to blame Apple for it either. Do you actually expect any company their size to do any different?

To the extent they’re legally able to, Apple has absolutely resisted compromising their device security features to aid law enforcement.

Good thing Trump’s distracted by gold baubles.

While the amount of data gathered is concerning, the type of data is still considered telemetry, which you still agree to have them collect when accepting the terms and conditions of the App Store.

That isn’t to say I’m happy Apple is doing this, but I wanted to start by making that distinction: Apple isn’t “ignoring” your preference to turn off personalized ads, it’s collecting telemetry data which you’ve already given them permission to do when signing up for and using the App Store. The issue with this telemetry data from a privacy perspective is the amount and the fact that it can still be used to identify a user. These are rightly concerning.

It looks like a class-action suit was brought against them for this, and as of September of 2024 a judge trimmed some of the claims, but refused to toss out the suit meaning Apple has to defend themselves. Unfortunately that’s all the information I can find. Do you have anything from after that point? I’m only asking because I don’t and would like to know how it’s going.

Sucks Apple is doing this for sure, but at this point unfortunately it doesn’t seem to violate any existing agreements (would like to see how the class-action progresses to confirm this) and there is still no sign that they’re selling this data or using it to deliver you personalized ads. Pending the results of the suit I’m gonna have to reiterate that even with this, they’re absolutely the lesser evil. But still an evil.

They would sell us out for a dollar

Still possible but also still unfounded, so far.

No that was Tim Apple kissing the ring to minimize tariffs. And it worked.

They have the keys for your account, yes. The data is another story if you turn on Advanced Data Protection. In that case, they could access your account but the data would be useless.

They do not have encryption keys or a backdoor (that we know of) for your physical device. So if you don’t use iCloud and adjust privacy settings you can stay reasonably private on an iPhone. At least more so than on Android.

Here’s how I think about it:

Google’s business model involves advertising to you, tracking your activity, mining your data, and selling that information to other entities while also using it to advertise to you more. It’s their main profit-driver. You are the product.

Apple’s business model is to sell you the hardware, give you the software and make it (mostly) depend on the services to keep you locked in. You (the user) are not the product, their devices and services are.

Of the two, which is the lesser evil?

Normies are not going to fully convert to Linux phones and open-source software any time soon. In the meantime as far as privacy is concerned, Apple can do much worse and Google can do much better.

Ok please let me know when you have more information I am very interested to know.

Is this separate from Advanced Data Protection, which is E2E encrypted data on iCloud?

“Don’t track privacy type settings” isn’t very descriptive, so apologies if I’m sounding any way I’m just trying to be clear about what the complaint here is.

And to be clear, is this a privacy concern exclusive to Apple?

The issue in one of the cases (San Bernardino) had nothing to do with iCloud data, and everything to do with the data on the device itself. The FBI request was a backdoor into the device. Apple (rightly) refused to add a backdoor to access the phone.

You are referencing data that goes to Apple’s iCloud servers, which Apple was happy to provide because they held the encryption keys. Since then, they have enabled an E2E encryption feature for iCloud data.

I am happy to discuss Apple’s shortcomings, but let’s be clear on which ones we’re discussing

Well yeah they kinda have to at that point in order to continue conducting business in that country. What about this is specific to Apple?

It’s even more than that. They don’t want the liability of responsibility handling/securing your data in the event their systems are breached.

I used to work for a company that did a lot of business with Apple and have friends who have worked at Apple proper, they’re paranoid about mishandling sensitive data.

Apple has 2x very publicly resisted government demands for user data and campaigned against laws to institute backdoors into their software and services. They’re not perfect by any means but they are by far a lesser evil.

A fully capable Linux phone is the dream, but most people aren’t going to use one. For the majority of people, I would recommend the company that refused to listen to the US and EU about weakening the security of their products over the one with the business model of relying on advertising to you and selling your data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6raVzrbqrM&pp=ygUOSW5mbGF0YWJsZSB5b3U%3D