- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
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- [email protected]
Mozilla is unhappy because the use of browser engines other than WebKit will be restricted to the EU, forcing them to develop two different apps.
For an independent browser like Firefox, managing two browsers is not easy, so it can be forgiven that this could be seen as almost harassment.
Also, the fact that the use of browser engines other than WebKit is limited to iOS means that the use of WebKit is still forced on iPadOS, which also increases the effort for Mozilla.
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I’m fucking enraged man. I hope we can regulate these assholes.
There is a very easy solution. Don’t buy apple.
That’s not a solution. It’s a way for you to avoid the problem. It does nothing to help the millions of people who are already deeply invested in the Apple ecosystem.
then sell apple
Not a solution.
This not only has a time and effort cost attached to it but selling your used hardware to buy new hardware is always a bad value proposition.
Then sell stonks.
(For legal purposes this is a joke.)
Perfect for the genius bar.
sunk cost fallacy
Not sure if it’s a fallacy if it’s about addressing people who have spent a ton on an ecosystem and can’t just devote more money to buy the alternative and time to figure out the parts that aren’t compatible
What parts aren’t compatible? And you can load Linux and Windows on all Mac’s. You can also sell your iPhone and buy an android phone with money left over… getting out of the apple closed ecosystem is cheaper than sticking with it.
For most people, time is not regarded to be free (i.e. not a cost). As a devoted Linux user, the adage that “Linux is only free if you don’t value your time” is absolutely true.
Uhh ok install windows then?
You can’t refund anything that’s not physical, for one…
Where did I say refund anything?
No, it’s not a sunk-cost fallacy.
If you already have a bunch of Apple stuff, it makes more sense to continue using Apple stuff, because switching would cost money and effort. You’d also lose access to the software library that you paid for.
Having a bunch of Apple stuff also makes buying more Apple stuff in the future a better value proposition because you gain access to features that you wouldn’t otherwise have. Platform lock-in is not a sunk-cost fallacy. You’re just uninformed and being smug about it.
The sunk cost fallacy only applies when stopping is free or the cost is low enough (in money or effort) that it makes more sense to quit than continue.
That is the solution though, always has been. Vote with your wallet.
Yeah, let’s ignore the entire history of labor, environmental, safety, and product regulations, and believe everything is the way it is because of our dogmatic free market feefees.
Lol for a moment there I thought I was going off the rails with my puffa jacket rant above, but your segway into “free market feefees” is far more unhinged.
Username checks out
free market works when the market is actually free.
As soon as entry costs are introduced into the market, the free market falls apart.
Think of the costs of building factories, rnd, lawyers, etc.
Fucking lol. Your logic is undeniable!
Apple: opens its wallet
Lol that’s basically the Brave attitude, drown out the controversy with a marketing campaign and pull in more new unsuspecting users than the ones you lose.
voting with your wallet doesn’t work when most people would buy anyway (whether it’s because they’re ignorant, trapped to do so, etc)
The minority of people that actually care and know about privacy and software freedom is just a tiny statistic in Apple’s perspective, so voting with your wallet doesn’t work.
“My actions mean nothing because everyone else won’t do it” is exactly what everyone else is thinking.
You’re making excuses. Be the change you know should happen. Don’t be a sheep.
Don’t buy puffa jackets. Seriously. They’re fucking everywhere now. Don’t do it, you don’t need it, they’re cheap and overpriced.
I’m already taking actions, but I do it with the understanding that it won’t make much of a difference.
I’m sorry to break your bubble but most people just don’t care. They want their computer to play a video off the internet, and don’t care how long that takes as long as it works. Maybe they’ll care about things in the specific interests they have, but they won’t care about computers, software, and libre software.
We, people that care about software freedom are a minority and we need to accept that. And the only way to get things done when you’re in the minority is to borrow power from the majority, e.g. by passing legislation.
Most people not caring isn’t a concern of mine. Apple being wealthy isn’t a concern of mine. What concerns me is that the products I use flourish and develop in ways that I like. I don’t use Apple, so I don’t particularly care about them - I just watch the drama from the sidelines.
You’re not bursting my bubble in any way, but you are being a little pretentious.
You cannot root out the evil from within such massive companies. Nvidia still has a stranglehold on the market with CUDA. Literally the only thing one can do is to employ their wallet towards more fruitful endeavours, like donating and purchasing Android in this case. People who are invested into Apple are going to have to face that they made a choice moving away from freedom, even though I understand that staying the odd one out socially isn’t a lot of fun. There’s nothing to be done here unless someone with a lot of money and lawyers sues Apple. Know anyone willing to do that?
Then deinvest?
What a fucking argument. “Yes, it is a problem, but it is too hard for me to do anything about it, someone else should fix it”
boycotts barely work, and doubly so when the company has a legion of faithful fanbois and its among the biggest corporations on the planet.
I don’t. Many people do. To protect their very clear monopolistic goals, we need to protect consumers from this stuff.
I’d like to add that even if you sell apple. The only other alternative is android and they have their own set of issues.
For me, an iPhone that allows sideloading would be a huge step towards perfect.
Why do you hate consumer protection law?
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I like how just about everyone I who’s looked at this is basically like, “fuck apple”.
There are a few fanboys, but they are way less common than usual.
I’m hoping Apple picks up on this and reverses course.
They won’t care, they have the consumerist crowd locked down. The crowd that buys dozens of Stanley Tumblers so they have one that matches any outfit. There might be more of us who care than there used to be, but the average iPhone buyer doesn’t care and Apple knows it.
I am so out of the loop on Stanley tumblers. People are obsessed with them, I don’t get it.
The gist of it from what I remember is a woman’s car burned, but her Stanley tumbler survived the fire, and maybe still had ice in it. Anyway she posted on tiktok about the whole incident, and Stanley’s marketing department got the biggest lay-up ever, I think they bought her a new car, and launched a bunch of new colors of tumblers as limited edition things.
Apple always had been painfull for any third party devs. Also Vivaldi worked several years to create a browser which works in this iPhone thing, and now, after it’s release, Apple admits Chromium.
My wife has an iPad and one of the things I hate the most is that you can’t install adblock extensions into Firefox on it like you can on Android. Which is a thing that has made using the browser on the phone wayyyy more enjoyable.
I use DNS level blocking for blocking ads on iOS devices.
Which service do you use (if any) for it? Personally I use controld but I hear NextDNS is the most popular
NextDNS. Pretty cheap and supports DNS over HTTPS.
I use AdGuard both on my Android phone and iPad. Not quite as good on the iPad because Apple doesn’t make it easy, but definitely makes a huge difference. For me, $30 a year is worth it and you can use it on 3 devices. I got sick of the ads in apps that were downright disturbing in some cases and reporting them didn’t do a whole lot. Browser extensions can do a lot more to tidy up the experience, but I will take what I can get.
You can pay a lifetime licence for 10$ https://apps.apple.com/fr/app/adguard-pro-adblock/id1126386264?l=en-GB
I ended up getting it from them directly. I am on Android 90% of the time and don’t pay for the license from the Apple store. No idea if that one is a single device or the same as the multi-device. I tend to not do things from the Apple store as I don’t have an iPhone and they seem to want or assume you have one. Just like I can never use their watch (not that I want one).
Why are you paying per year? You can get lifetime adguard licenses for cheap from stack social.
genuinely fuck Apple for stealing khtml and driving it into the ground
Why not stopping developing apps for Apple systems? Fuck them.
Mozilla doesn’t have the sort of leverage to make an impact by abandoning apple devices. Firefox has an incredibly low market share and this could push people to other browsers. People tend to use the same browser for stuff like bookmark and password syncing, so abandoning ios could have larger consequences.
Yeah I understand, but if Apple is fucking up with our development, not only for Firefox, for any developer that makes apps for phones… why keep following their abusive rules? When I say “stopping developing apps for Apple” I mean, any developer that dislikes the abusive rules of Apple and fees. If we abandon the system, the iOS users will need to move to Android or other systems that are more friendly for developers.
Oh yeah generally I’d agree, with firefox I just think it’d be better to do what will push the fewest people away as long as it’s possible to maintain development.
Sadly yeah, I was just like “screaming with anger” about what Apple does, and seems everyone just agrees and keep playing their game.
The issue is that larger companies which could have an impact (Netflix, google, Meta) already have special deals in place that bypass these rules
https://newsroom.spotify.com/2024-01-26/apples-proposed-changes-reject-the-goals-of-the-dma/
And it comes down to a fundamental question: Will the European Commission follow through with its intent to right-size Apple’s abuse of power? Or will the DMA be nice in theory, but in practice, have no substantive meaning for most developers?
From Spotify.
Update: https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/29/24054943/microsoft-apple-app-store-dma-rule-change-response Xbox (Microsoft)
Because then Apple fanbois will complain and tarnish Mozilla’s/Firefox’s reputation
They already do that, they can say whatever, they will be isolated with their shitty Apple products and if they want decent browsers then they will need to use decent systems. Apple can’t abuse of their power and force us to follow their abusive rules, they can’t even have a decent UI desktop. They are so bad programmers.
Such a weird take.
Also this has nothing to do with programmers.
Just saying their OS sucks, bad designs, buggy UIs, etc. They don’t even decent software, and I already saw many stupid bugs.
Android was a victim of the NSO’s Pegasus because of WhatsApp, and possibly that only worked because Facebook negotiated with phone manufacturers to bundle dodgy pre-installed system apps outside the Google Play Store.
Apple’s iOS was a victim of the NSO’s Pegasus because of iMessages.
For me, that’s enough to completely steer clear of iOS altogether. I mean, the lack of customisation and control over my device was already enough, but that kind of vindicated it for me.
Yeah, my Android doesn’t have WhatsApp, I neither have Google apps. It’s a degoogled OS. I feel free and things works, even my default web browser on my Android has NoScript (JavaScript blocker), to make it safer. With Apple… you are sold.
Ditto! No Google needed, and Facebook apps are prohibited on my phone. I can even get banking apps working with a bit of Magisk, working in Zygisk domain with a deny list hiding it from the apps. Apparently proper SafetyNet checks aren’t that common anymore.
For browsers, I’d recommend Mull and Mulch. Mull is a privacy fork of Firefox, Mulch is a hardened version of Android System Webview (the backend browser that lots of apps use). Both come pre-installed with DivestOS.
The fun life of an Apple customer.
how do I de-apple my iPhone?
Don’t purchase & start using it from the first place. Save yourself plenty of resources. Focus on something else productive & valuable.
You could try to jailbreak but honestly you’re better off not having an iPhone
Why would you want to do that?
Genuine question.
Because if it is the hardware you want to keep and not the software, there are good android based options. And if what you want is control over the software, there are also good android options. I’d recommend a Pixel phone, and you’ll always have the option to de-goggle it completely with either CalyxOs, GrapheneOs or similar ones.
I was more poking fun at how ios users who let an ultra mega corp holds all their data and actively cripples privacy efforts while touting a false sense of privacy as marketing, never ask to de-apple their iPhones
Their lack of choice is why I’ll never buy Apple products.
Apple does not care and will never care about open source other than the bits it has to care about because they’re a part of Darwin, their core.
They’re a company offering a particular “experience” and open source products do not fit into that model well at all. I use apple phones because I’m partially blind and for a very long time the accessibility story on Android was a screaming nightmare (I’m told it’s got better) but I have no illusions that they’re anything other than a profit seeking MegaCorp with all that implies.
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