Sure, but what IS responsibly? If part of being responsible about it is limiting it, how do we decide to go about limiting it? Every answer does touch on eugenics. I agree with the proposition that we need overall less humans in addition to every other step to reduce our carbon/ecological impact, but doing it ethically is pretty hard.
The problem with that is that always leads to two things:
Eugenics
Killing off minorities who “reproduce too much”
Anyone who talks about limiting people from having children will inevitably lead to that conversation. It’s a literal non-starter for anyone who thinks even a fucking bit.
No, as a literal fucking minority, I know that ANY TALK about reducing the human population or restricting people from having children inevitably needs to eugenics or people LITERALLY ADVOCATING FOR GENOCIDING MINORITIES THAT “BREED TOO MUCH”.
I’ve seen this song and dance too many times to not fucking notice it. It’s a non-starter for me and it should be too for anyone else.
Your fears are real and frankly warranted. There is a litteral shit ton of that bullshit going around. Degrowth isn’t one of them.
Don’t cripple yourself intellectually because bad people ruin good things. They do that to all ideas.
Think of the alternatives to degrowth. If you can’t take something within our control, humans and their consumption, and bring them within the bounds of what earth’s natural systems can renew you are comitting us to some real distopian shit.
They all demand magical thinking of some techno-utopian solution that if it doesn’t materialize for any reason you have committed earth to an unsustainable future. Countless deaths of suffering and deprivation because you adhered to the ideology of endless growth, like cancer. Gigadeaths from deprivation, then conflict as our resource base depletes.
All we have to do is dial things back willingly and purposefully. Fully embracing diversity. No eugenics. No death squads. Every life not born (birth rates are already plumeting) means someone, somewhere won’t have to die of deprivation or conflict. We can encourage this, and consumption is included. Lead simpler lifes of sufficiency. Life is sacred. If you are born you deserve a life of sufficiency regardless of who you are of where you are born.
It’s a large sprawling topic. Simple in concept, enormous in execution. But the gist is easy. If we don’t get humanity into balance with ecological carrying capacity, we’re going to lose everything.
When you say “no” to degrowth, regardless of your motivations, you are condeming humanity to a hail-mary of techno-magical thinking. Degrowth requires no new as of yet uninvented technology. We have everything we need. The math is simple. Let not humanity be a locust plague on the earth. Let’s end the sixth great mass extinction with as much of the richness of this world we love as possible.
What part of no one dies and all life is respected do you not understand? Ecological overshoot will kill billions, and possibly add humans to the 6th great mass extinction. I’m trying to save life dummy.
Your tombstone will read
Sal - couldn’t reach the brake pedal, crashed into a wall, by his choice.
This guy’s an anti-natalist, I wouldn’t take seriously anything he fucking says.
I fucking despise the whole natalism divide. We should just treat procreation like alcohol:
BREED RESPONSIBLY.
Sure, but what IS responsibly? If part of being responsible about it is limiting it, how do we decide to go about limiting it? Every answer does touch on eugenics. I agree with the proposition that we need overall less humans in addition to every other step to reduce our carbon/ecological impact, but doing it ethically is pretty hard.
The problem with that is that always leads to two things:
Anyone who talks about limiting people from having children will inevitably lead to that conversation. It’s a literal non-starter for anyone who thinks even a fucking bit.
Just listen to Michael Jackson’s words.
If you can’t feed the baby; Then don’t have a baby,
You are a very simple person. Does being unburdened by understanding anything feel liberating? Do you do it by choice, or are you just incapable?
No, as a literal fucking minority, I know that ANY TALK about reducing the human population or restricting people from having children inevitably needs to eugenics or people LITERALLY ADVOCATING FOR GENOCIDING MINORITIES THAT “BREED TOO MUCH”.
I’ve seen this song and dance too many times to not fucking notice it. It’s a non-starter for me and it should be too for anyone else.
Your fears are real and frankly warranted. There is a litteral shit ton of that bullshit going around. Degrowth isn’t one of them.
Don’t cripple yourself intellectually because bad people ruin good things. They do that to all ideas.
Think of the alternatives to degrowth. If you can’t take something within our control, humans and their consumption, and bring them within the bounds of what earth’s natural systems can renew you are comitting us to some real distopian shit.
They all demand magical thinking of some techno-utopian solution that if it doesn’t materialize for any reason you have committed earth to an unsustainable future. Countless deaths of suffering and deprivation because you adhered to the ideology of endless growth, like cancer. Gigadeaths from deprivation, then conflict as our resource base depletes.
All we have to do is dial things back willingly and purposefully. Fully embracing diversity. No eugenics. No death squads. Every life not born (birth rates are already plumeting) means someone, somewhere won’t have to die of deprivation or conflict. We can encourage this, and consumption is included. Lead simpler lifes of sufficiency. Life is sacred. If you are born you deserve a life of sufficiency regardless of who you are of where you are born.
It’s a large sprawling topic. Simple in concept, enormous in execution. But the gist is easy. If we don’t get humanity into balance with ecological carrying capacity, we’re going to lose everything.
When you say “no” to degrowth, regardless of your motivations, you are condeming humanity to a hail-mary of techno-magical thinking. Degrowth requires no new as of yet uninvented technology. We have everything we need. The math is simple. Let not humanity be a locust plague on the earth. Let’s end the sixth great mass extinction with as much of the richness of this world we love as possible.
Bro’s really talking like MCU Thanos right now 💀
What part of no one dies and all life is respected do you not understand? Ecological overshoot will kill billions, and possibly add humans to the 6th great mass extinction. I’m trying to save life dummy.
Your tombstone will read
Sal - couldn’t reach the brake pedal, crashed into a wall, by his choice.